Ep 84: Interview with Jane Knight, Successful Mums

1 May 2023

Jane Knight is the founder of Successful Mums, a training company specifically designed to support mums with their career after having children.

In this episode we talk about why Jane set up Successful Mums and how she got started. We talk about the issues that mums face and the courses she offers to help. We also talk about how she markets her business, her website (which we built) and advice for other entrepreneurs.

This episode is packed full of great advice

Jane’s links

Website: https://successfulmums.co.uk

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/successfulmums_

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/successfulmums

youTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx-EJ8jfneEAcpietyEHEVQ

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/successful-mums


Find us at https://beyondthekitchentable.co.uk

Free PDF download: https://beyondthekitchentable.co.uk/downloads/

Blog post https://beyondthekitchentable.co.uk/blog

Follow us at https://www.instagram.com/beyondthekt

Email sayhello@beyondthekitchentable.co.uk


Welcome to the Website Coach podcast and I am really excited to have a guest on with me this week. So Jane Knight is the founder of Successful Mom's Career Academy, which is a training company specifically designed to support moms with their career after having children. And I think we all know how hard it is to go back to work or to set up a business after you've had children. These are government funded courses, which are free to those who are eligible, and I know many people who have benefited from them, and they tell me how helpful they've been, especially to help them get going and how inspirational Jane is. So welcome to the podcast, Jane. Oh, thank you Marie. And that's a really lovely introduction. So yeah, very kind. Thank you. And I'm really pleased to be here. Excellent. So can you tell us a bit more about the kind of courses that you run and who they for please? Absolutely. So successful Mom's career Academy is for moms that are looking to go back to work or possibly change their career completely, or they might just wanna get their mojo back. Um, we run a number of courses and we provide career advice, and it's all about moms supporting moms. And Marie off the, um, off the back of me becoming a mom myself. I think it was. It was key really, that I could see, see the demand to support this, this group of women back to work. So the courses we, we do run, um, you know, we, we didn't just put the courses on because we thought these would be nice courses. I listened to the, I suppose the headache of, um, if the mums and then these courses are the paracetamol. I like that analogy. I think we could all do with listening more to, uh, what people tell us, what our potential clients tell us they actually need, and, and certainly give them that, that paracetamol. So what, what was the, uh, the reason for starting it? What was the inspiration, if you like? So, I suppose the inspiration was my first child, Daniel. Um, I, I'm a teacher and career advisor and coach, and when I became a mom, I could. I could see that there was lots of women that wanted to go back to work. They didn't know where to start. They would say to me or Jane, can you help me with my cv? I dunno what to put on my cv. I've got nothing to offer an employer when in fact they had so many skills from their previous work experience, but they also. Had all of these new skills from being a mom or a parent or a carer. Um, and in answer to your question, I suppose at that point I could see a demand. I had my, you know, my son and I just thought, wouldn't it be great if off the back of me becoming a mom I can help these, these other women? And um, yeah, and hopefully. Be an inspiration to my son as well. Um, yeah, and that's where it, where it started. Brilliant. And how, how did you get started? What was, what was the first thing that you, that you did once you'd actually had this idea? Well, I think I'd, I'd been coaching for years. My background is training and skills and coaching. So I already had, you know, I'd helped hundreds and hundreds of, of women typically, and men, but mostly women, um, in terms of life. Skills, I suppose, and achieving their goals, not necessarily to their career, but lots, lots of various, um, goals that they wanted to achieve and then, When I had the idea, I started, um, running sessions in, I think it was just like a local hall I put on Facebook. I think it was, um, career advice, um, come along, you know, free event. And um, yeah, I was just really surprised how many people were turning up. I was so fortunate that, you know, I'd have people in front of me that had lost their mojo. They wanted to go back to work, they just didn't know where to start. And I was able to provide, um, you know, New career ideas, how they can get their mojo back in terms of the transferable skills you have as a mom that you can take into the workplace. And I started to formulate this sort of structure and framework of, um, a pathway to, to going back to work. Or starting your own business. And really it just, it just then sort of grew from, from there. In my original goal, Marie, was to help a hundred moms, and I sort of wrote it down in secret thinking, I'd love to support a hundred moms. It would really be great if I could do that. Um, and we really And how many have you supported? Well, well, I think we're just shy about 8,000 now. And of course I haven't done that on my own. I've got a fantastic team. Um, but yeah, so it's, it is been really, really positive. And can we talk about some of those transferrable skills? Because I, I remember certainly when my children were at primary school being amazed at the women who were at the school gates who were keen to go back to work, but they didn't really know what they wanted to do because they felt that they couldn't go back to their old careers often because the hours just weren't. Flexibly enough, and this was quite some years ago. It's probably more like 15 years ago, 10, 15 years ago. Um, but I was certainly amazed at this, at the skills women had who were around the school gate. So can you talk a little bit about what some of those transferable skills are, and particularly the skills that you develop as a, as a mom. Mm, well, my, my personal favorites, I've got two children now, Marie. So conflict management is, um, is a skill that I'm so much better at, um, than when I wasn't a parent. So that's one great example. And in fact, uh, this morning I was running an event, um, over the other side of London, um, and I had a, a, a full room of women. And when I talked to them about their transferrable skills, they was all really quiet and I wasn't quite sure what to say. And I, I said, let's, let's. Talk me through what you do every day. And then of course it just came to them. They were saying organizational skills, um, negotiation, you know, I mean, just to get children out the door to school is, it can be an achievement. Um, negotiating. You know, you can, you can eat that chocolate bar, but I want you to eat an apple and a banana first. All. You know, all the, the, the ongoing sort of dialogue that we have with our children, depending on their age there, you know, there's always a negotiation, even though I thought I would be in charge. That isn't, that isn't always the case. Um, I think that's one of the great myths of becoming a parent, the fact that you think you're going to be in charge. Yeah, that's, that's just doesn't happen, does it? Um, and the other one of course is event management. I've arranged what's, what's Daniel now? Daniel's um, 13. So I've arranged quite a few birthday parties where the mom's happy, the dad's happy, the child's happy. Um, there's no peanuts. They go home with a lovely party bag, you know, that is your're managing an event there. It's, it takes a lot of work. So, you know, budgeting, event management, negotiation. You are the health and safety officer. If Daniel says to me, or I wanna go around Dominic's, I immediately think, where does Dominic live? Um, has Daniel got to cross the road? Who's Dominic's, um, mom or parents or carer? There's all these questions that go through your head and nutrition. You know, I mean, lot of the mums that I. I'm friends with at the school, their child might have, um, some type of allergy. So, you know, I'm not claiming that they're suddenly nutritionists, but what they are doing is really alert to food labels. If you have a child with additional needs, then you've definitely, the sort of empathy that you have will be so much greater. Um, and so that's just for flavor of, of some of the, the transferrable skills that employers are looking for. So it's really important. They are on your CV and you haven't just got this big sort of void, um, that says career break and then there's nothing there because you and me know Marie, that, you know, we certainly haven't been on the sofa with our feet up, have we? No, no. There's definitely more to looking after toddlers and pepper pig. Um, for sure. And. A lot of women, I guess, when they are, when they are thinking about going back to, to work or to starting something new, they worry about the skills that they don't have and the fact that the workplace has, has moved on. And I guess you helped to bridge that gap. What are some of those things that people are particularly worried about? So we find the, the biggest, um, worry, um, Is the three Cs. So it's confidence, career advice in childcare. So the confidence piece I think is typically when people have had some time outta work. They think everybody else is, um, flying, doing really well at work. They aren't going to go back to work and not know what's going on. So, The confidence piece. We do a huge amount of work around mindset, um, around neurolinguistic programming techniques. So that's, you know, partly that's the message that you tell yourself. So it's really important these moms recognize that they're not just a mom. Being a mom is actually a superpower. So we'll talk to them about how they talk to themselves. We discuss the transferrable skills, and we also explained that. Despite being outta work, the, the ongoing training, um, that some of our colleagues might be having in the workplace. We are all learning as parents because we are learning every day. We're learning all the time. So the confidence piece, I'm really lucky that we have 92% of the people that come in our courses say they feel more confident after they've attended our courses. And I, I, you know, I certainly. I haven't got a magic bottle that I give out to people, but what we have got is if you can bring like-minded women together and they can talk about their, I suppose, their barriers and then talk about the solutions, it immediately builds confidence because I. You realize you're not the only person feeling like that. You don't feel so isolated, and there's just some really simple techniques that we use, such as always wearing your invisible crown, which automatically means your chin is up, your shoulders are back, and you're feeling better about yourself. We talk about. Only speak positive words about yourself. It's so easy to, to say, I'm no good at this, or, I can't do that. Or No, I haven't worked for X amount of years. We're all working. We are moms, but it's just, we are not being paid for it. So, you know, the, the confidence piece is ab absolutely, absolutely key. And we do say to our, our moms, you know, what would you say to your best friends, you, you'd encourage them to, to be the best version of themselves and stay confident. Um, So the confidence piece is, is key career advice. We are really fortunate that we work with so many different industry experts where we're able to, um, talk about the real demands in the UK in terms of industry needs. So I've been talking this morning about, um, spec special educational needs where more people are talking about, um, autism, for example. There's been a. A real spike in, um, the demand for individuals to work in cen. Um, but at the moment those people aren't there. So it's how people can be trained and potentially start a new career in special educational needs. Um, another example of new careers would be around, um, the healthcare sector. Um, and whether that's personal care or whether it's a senior role within the healthcare sector, there are just so many opportunities. I mean, the n H S has, um, I think it's about 360 different job. Titles or job roles available, um, and really interesting roles as well. Um, and of course the environment, the green. Mm-hmm. There's, um, you know, that is just a absolutely huge industry that is just getting bigger and bigger. And at the moment, the UK have not got the specialisms or the people that can carry out some of those jobs. So, to retrain, which is something we encourage the mums to do if they can, if they're able to, is, um, is really. Possible taking into account your previous work experience. So I think. New careers and career advice about jobs that you can go into is something we do do a lot of. Um, and obviously childcare. We are able to provide, um, ideas and links to childcare opportunities. And we're, in fact, we're working with the government at the moment who are looking, um, into the childcare options for moms and dads and carers returning to work to support, um, support people to make this journey easier and more affordable as well. Yeah, absolutely. And obviously that's one reason that a lot of people decide that they would prefer to start up their own business rather than actually go back to a job is the issue of childcare and having something which is more flexible. Um, and they can perhaps do more locally than they would otherwise be doing. I know certainly I went back to work after having both of my children, but. After a while, I realized it was just, I think it was making us all miserable, um, because of the stress of not, uh, feeling like I wasn't doing any of it properly, whereas, It's still stresses when you run your own business, but one of the things you don't necessarily have is if you can work from home, if you can run your business from home, is the stress of, of the commute and childcare in quite the same way. Um, you know, you, yes, you've still got clients to deal with, um, and childcare might present an issue if you need to be with a client, but a lot of clients are more understanding than a, the boss without children or with a wife at home might necessarily be. Yeah. And how and, and what about, so what about women who actually decide that they would like to, or men that they would like to take that path of, of setting up on their own? How do you help them and what are some of the issues that they perhaps grapple with? So one of the courses we run is a enterprise course, and it will take these women, um, and men through a framework around, okay, what is your business idea? And it's really important. I mean, this is absolutely key because often women will come to us and say, oh, I've got 10, 20, 30 different business ideas. So the first thing is around, okay, let's, let's, you know, make that list shorter and which, which one are you going to enjoy the most? Uh, but which one will be profitable? I mean, the thing is often people get very excited about their business idea and they might say, oh, I accept I might not make money for the next, for the first, you know, six months, a year, maybe two years, which is fine, but you need to have in place when you are going to make money. Otherwise, it is, it is purely a, a hobby. So the enterprise course that we, we provide. The framework is around the idea. Um, we look at the customer, who is your customer? And something I hear time and time again is always anybody. Um, but of course it's, it's not, I think even Tescos wouldn't say anybody. I think, you know, there is certainly a. Whether it's a, a product or a service that you are offering, and whether it's business to business or business to consumer, you need to be able to draw on a bit of paper what your customer looks like. So if it is business to consumer, you know, what does that person look like? How old are they? Where do they go on holiday? What social media platforms are they on? Um, who do they vote for? Because the more you know about your customer, the easier it is to get in front of them and say, hello, you know, you'd really benefit from my product or my service. And whatever you do do, it's about knowing how you can enhance their life or, um, you know, take away a problem. Um, so the framework and the course we offer will cover the ideas, um, your customers. We look at a marketing plan, we look at social media. Um, we provide sort of mentoring and ideas. Um, we are able to link the mums with other organizations that are similar, that can help them out. Cause I'm a great believer that there's enough to go round and if you can talk to other people about, you know, how they got to where they got to. The majority of people are really generous and happy to share. Um, and that can be really, really, really helpful. So, I suppose the enterprise course that we do run, just. There's, there's something in there that gives people the real foundation to start a business. The the bottom line is you need to get out there and do it yourself, but I suppose we are that safety net. We can give them the information along with a network of other moms that have your back to, um, really sort of kickstart your entrepreneurial journey. Absolutely. And a lot of it comes back to competence again, I guess, um, in terms of actually believing that you can do it and also believe that people, people are looking for solutions to problems, to their own problems and like you say, to enhance their lives. They're not looking at whether you've put on an extra half a stone or a stone, which is what I know. Certainly some of the women that I particularly, uh, deal with as, as clients. Will worry about having photos taken or, or anything like that. But actually it's all about how you enhance your clients' lives and you know how you can help them. And, and talking of which, so in terms of your own business and running successful mums as a business, how do you get clients? What, what are the, the route that, that you find in terms of how you get clients? Absolutely. We, well, I, I do share, you know, anything I've learned in the last, um, nine years running the business, you know, I'm more than happy to share because I just think it's, there's certain nuggets that people can take away that can be really useful. Um, So I think in terms of how we, or I get my clients, we do run quite a few taster sessions, like free events, and I always wanted to do that from the outset. I didn't want people to have to pay for the training. So I'm fortunate that we do have access to, um, government funding, which means, um, as long as the, the moms or the dads meet the eligibility criteria, then the courses and the coaching is completely free. So the. An answer to your question, how we get our customers, um, really lucky, 65% of people come to us, word of mouth, which is just, you know, I'm so thankful for that, but really it's so authentic and organic, um, that it, that sort of really, really has an impact. And then I do run monthly preta sessions, sometimes in person, sometimes online. And anybody is welcome to come along to those where I might give some. Advice, I can answer questions and some of those people will then book onto our courses, which is great, but some of them either aren't eligible or they won't book onto our courses, and that's fine, as long as there's a takeaway for them. Mm-hmm. Then if they've got a little bit of, um, information that will spark or just, you know, Just really inspire them to go away and make it happen, then I'm happy with that. And the chances are they will tell other people about what we do. So that's been a really sort of nice way to, to market our business. Um, and we are fortunate across social media, and I think we've got back 21,000 followers across, and we're on Instagram, Facebook, Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn and YouTube. So based on those numbers, um, and you know, we. Across social media, we, what we try to do is showcase the, the fantastic women that we've worked with and, and what they've achieved. And it's all about personal success. Um, because I think then other moms will say, oh, that's like me. I could do that. If she can do that, I can do that. Which then gives them the, um, the gentle nudge to then, you know, get in touch and then we can see how we can help those people as well. Definitely, and it's certainly one of the things that I say to a lot of my clients in terms of using testimonials. You want those testimonials on your website in my particular case when I'm talking to them, so that people who are in a similar position can see somebody who has been successful. And I think that's one of the best marketing tools that you can. That you can have, because we all want to go from where we are now to that place that somebody else has, has, has got to. And so seeing how they've got there and that somebody who has helped them on their way, they're much more likely to, to, to book or, or, or buy your course or, or whatever it might be. Um, in order to get that same level of success. And, and going back to your free taster session, how do you get people to know about your free taster sessions and to sign up to those? Um, so I do a weekly update. So I usually do a short video that goes on social media to let people know what we're doing. Um, we advertise on the website and our, I mean, our website is just, it's, well, you put together our website and it's been really great because I suppose, um, historically the websites we've had were very, um, They, the information was there and then nothing changed. Whereas as we've just touched on with the case studies and the testimonials, we are adding them all the time. So I suppose what's really helped is where we have the functionality, um, with your web, well, with our website, but your website, that means we can actually add those case studies ourself. Yeah. So rather than, Just having a almost stagnant website that looks the same. We can update the case studies, um, we can update the monthly events and we can signpost people from our social to book onto those events. Um, we've also got a, a lovely database of mums, probably about eight, 9,000 mums. We've, we've got on there that they will receive our, our newsletters. I mean, we do. We do tend to, you know, put useful information in the, in the newsletters, um, along with various opportunities, vari, various job vacancies. Um, and we are very fortunate that we work with a lot of employers and a lot of partners that will showcase what we do as well. So we, we tend to get new. Um, new customers that way where we sort of tap into other people's audiences quite organically. Yeah, I think collaboration is a very underutilized tool actually in marketing. It's something that I don't do, um, enough of, but certainly collaborating with other businesses and getting in front of their audiences, I think is a, is a, is a great tool. Um, can we talk about the website a little bit more actually, because, um, And I must admit, I can't remember, was it, I think it was two years ago, wasn't it, that we, um, redid your website two and a half years ago. Um, can you talk about why you decided that you needed a, a new website and how you came to choose a website designer? So I think our, I think we've had two websites before and they were both fine at that point. Um, I think what happened is we got to the stage where we did need, need the website to be more interactive. We wanted to update the case studies. Um, and I just needed to, I think to sort of move forwards with a. Website designer that really understood my needs and also could be, um, quite sort of responsive and also provide me that functionality that I wouldn't have to, well, I didn't have to, I don't have to come to you every week Marie and say, oh, can you change this? Can you change this for me? And I know that when I do, you do change it really quickly. So that's positive. However, Based on the websites that you designed for successful moms, we, we can change stuff ourselves. Mm-hmm. So, you know, it's so, well, it's, it's cost effective because it's my team updating the changes rather than using somebody else to do that. Um, and it's just so quick because it's instant and we, we can, you know, we can respond and, and make those changes. And then that is then reflected on the. Um, the visitors and the analytics, cuz we can see people are coming to our website and there's fresh data, there's fresh information and fresh case studies, which, um, which is partly what drives, you know, and supports our marketing. Yeah, definitely. And, and what would you say in terms of, obviously you got branding done at, at professional branding redone at the same time, which also helped freshen up the, the look, uh, of, of that as well. And I guess all of your, your social media. So how would you say the website has impacted. Your business more generally. The, the website has had a huge impact. Um, I think in it's helped us build our social media presence, our, our numbers on social media, our followers, our quality followers as well. Cause that's really important. There's one thing getting followers, but two, you need the right people following you. So your, your posts and your content is actually going to be of use for the, for the people that are following you. So I think the site, um, has, has driven new followers. To our, to our social media, we've seen an increase in bookings. We've just made the whole, I suppose, customer experience an onboarding process, a lot slicker. And we've been able to do that through the, off the back of, um, you know, the, the website customer journey, which I know we've worked on. We've worked on Marie, and that's, that's been really, really helpful. Yeah, I think it's probably helpful to explain to people who are listening the fact that I would say a website is always a work in progress. And obviously you've talked about how the fact you continually update your website with both events and also with, uh, case studies of successful mums. But the other thing since we started working together is that we have. Changed. We tweaked that course process and the process of people signing up on a couple of occasions. And it's always the case of learning and learning what works. And let's try this and see whether this works any better than what we have got currently. Um, and I think that's, say a website is not a static document and I always try and explain to people that you should try different things out. Um, and see, and see what works. Cuz previously you were sending people to event right? And you had a. Uh, spreadsheet, if I remember that you were manually in inputting things in, whereas now the process is, is administratively much slicker from your point of view. But also we've changed that interface in terms of how people sign up and how much information they need to give at the very beginning, uh, versus partway through a couple of times to see what works best. Yeah. And that has really helped. And I think you need to, you'd need to just be realistic and give things time to test. Otherwise, um, you, you just need to give things a chance. And I know that the previous onboarding was more convoluted. Um, it's now really slick. There's less clicks. Um, there's a completely, um, you know, Intuitive, simple form to complete. And um, yeah, the process has just been so much better and we've had really good feedback. But I mean, I'm not suggesting that anybody gets to a point where they think, okay, it's working brilliantly. It's about continuous analysis and improvements cuz things do change. So, you know, we will continue to look at that and I know that you and me have chats around or is this working or could we make this better? Um, but I just think as long as you are heading in the right direction, You just need to keep moving. And it's about progress, not perfection. Yeah, absolutely. And at the end of the day, it's making that user experience as frictionless as we possibly can so that ultimately they, they sign up whilst also making sure that we've got the right information, uh, for you as well. Um, and I, I want to, well, before we end, before we come onto some quickfire questions, can you, uh, let people know where they can find you if they're interested in finding out more? So the, we're on social media, um, successful moms, and then the website successful moms as well. We are a career academy. So what that means, we are actually governed by Ofsted. So I think people probably don't realize we are actually like a school, but instead for, for little people. We're a school for moms. Um, so the, some of the courses that we run are actually accredited qualifications. So they are, um, you know, Created and signed off by Off Quo. Um, the only difference is we actually use all of our resources and all of our materials now content that, um, myself and the team have designed, um, to engage with mom. So, If I just run through briefly the courses we run, there's the enterprise course, which we touched on earlier, and then we also do the Back to Work and Confidence course, and that will cover things such as CV support, personal branding, your LinkedIn profile. We can connect the moms with like-minded, flexible, friendly employers. Um, we do quite a lot around wellbeing and stress and the transition into work as well. It's really important when you do go back to work, you know, we, we've got a, a lovely checklist of, you know, how you can make your life easier because it is a quite a huge thing to go from not working to then. Going back into the workplace. Even if you're working at home, there's still, you know, there still is the shift. And then we do the digital skills. So we run our digital courses, we run a coaching, a mentoring course, um, autism awareness, which is a really popular one for, particularly for women that. Um, might have been diagnosed themselves. They might have children with autism or they might want to go into autism, um, or send as a career. And then our latest course, Marie, that's been so popular is the. Wellbeing and menopause. And that is around strategies to deal with your Mel wellbeing and also the perimenopause and the menopause. And the feedback we've had from that course has just been amazing. Um, and as I touched on, all the courses are free if you meet the criteria. They are online with our own very own learning platform. Um, you have your own login. There's interactive. Um, videos, there's lots of resources. And then of course there's the weekly webinars with other like-minded moms, and you have your very own successful moms coach who can support you with one-to-one support and help you gain your, your qualification. Whether you want to start a business, go back to work or, or learn a new skill. I think they are, um, absolutely incredible. And one of the things that. Well, the couple of things I particularly like about them, one is the fact they are free, uh, if you meet the eligibility criteria. And that criteria is pretty wide as well, isn't it? It's not just designed for A certain type of person who perhaps hasn't continued in education. They are very wide ranging the criteria. but also, the support that people get, the community, because certainly that's one of the things that I have found, you know, both Brent and I became a mom and also, working as a small business is having a community of people who just get it Yeah. Just makes all the difference in terms of how you feel a, about whatever it is that you are doing. Absolutely. And I think the course is a one thing, but what we, what we have, um, what we do as well, which is quite holistic, is, you know, it's around confidence. It's around self-belief. It's around achievable small goals. Um, It's almost, we're almost like a magazine for moms, I suppose, because it's not just about gaining a qualification, it's more than that. It's about getting your mojo back, having some direction, um, and having some accountability. Otherwise, it's quite easy to just put things off and you think, oh, I'll do that after. Um, I'll do, do that when screen comes along. Well, I'll do it after Easter. Oh, I'll wait till the kids go back to school after the summer holidays. And before you know it, you're, you're at Christmas. Mm-hmm. So as if you're working with successful moms, we are saying, okay, where do you want to be in a year's time? And now let's work backwards. What do you need to do every week? We can help you get there. Otherwise, before you know it, you could be 99 in a rocking chair looking out the window, doing your knitting and thinking. Could be a too late change career. Uh, 99. I might be in a rocking chair, but I'll be with a, a glass of G and tonic rather than anything. I think that sounds good. And in fact, ni is quite trendy now, isn't it? So, mate, it's absolutely, uh, Tom Daley, uh, second the scene for that. Um, so I've got some quick fire questions for you. Uh, first of all, any other podcasts that you can recommend to people, either business, podcasts or personal podcasts? Which ones do you like to listen to? Um, So I've got a couple I really enjoy. I love, um, Tim Ferris. I dunno if you know Tim. Yes. Four hour, four hour working week. Yep. So his podcast is very good. I really like, um, Gabby Logan. Yeah, she has, um, I think it's called Midpoint, her podcast. So that's, that's a really good one. Um, so those, I suppose those are my two favorites at the moment. Actually, Jenny, Jenny Forkner also does a, a podcast about running, which I quite like cuz we do, um, Yeah, I do quite a bit of running and we do lots of charity events, um, at successful moms raising money for various charities, including the Elina Children's Hospital. So yeah, those, I think those three are my, my top three at the moment. Ah, brilliant. That probably explains why I haven't heard of the Jenny Faulkner one. I have heard of Jenny Faulkner, but I've not listened to her podcast if it's about running. Um, next question for you is a favorite business book. So my favorite business book is something called Don't Sweat Small Stuff by Richard Carlson. And, um, it's a business book, but it's also, I think a life book. And I think when you work for yourself, you know, they're, they're very closely aligned. I think you need to get things as right as you can in your life to make your business run smoothly. And then if things are running smoothly in your business, your life should be running smoothly. So, you know, and nobody knows what's around the corner, but it's almost having. Systems in place, um, strategies in place, um, contingencies in place, um, for both of those, you know, life and, and business to run as smoothly as they can. And the, the Richard Colson book Don't Sweat. The Small stuff is all about the bigger picture and what's important. So don't worry about the small things, you know, because. If, if you can't do anything with it, then just let it go. You know, it's, it's around. Um, I'm, I'm a great believer. I think in the morning, Marie, we all wake up with a battery in our back, a bit like a Duracell Bunny for those of the people that will remember the Duracell bunnies and we've, we've got energy. In that battery in our back, and how are we gonna use that throughout the day? It goes down and down and down and down. So use it to the best of, for you, for your family, for your business, and make sure you're using your energy in that battery on the right thing. So it's all about, yeah, don't, don't sweat the small stuff. It's a great book. And in fact I've, I think it was, oh, it's probably about. 10 years ago I went to a charity shop in Black Heath and they had about 20 copies and I bought them all cause I think they were like 20 P each. And then I used to give them out to people just randomly cuz it's such a, such, oh well I think it's such a great book and it says, um, don't sweat the small stuff. Um, and it's all small stuff, simple ways to keep the little things from overtaking your life. Oh, that sounds brilliant. Brooke. I'm gonna add that one to my list. And I, I do like that analogy of aura cell battery in the morning and uh, yeah, what you use it on, cuz quite often mine's been used up an awful lot by half past eight course. That, yeah. Brilliant. And final question is a piece of business advice. I mean, the whole episode has been packed full of great advice for people, but a piece of business advice that you would like to leave people with. So my business advice would be find a coach or a mentor, somebody that can hold you accountable, because I think it's really easy to get very excited if you want to start a business or if you want to find a new job. But the bottom line is life gets in the way and it's quite easy that we can let ourselves down. Whereas if somebody else is holding you accountable, the chances are you're less likely. Hold those. You know, let those people down. And I've, I've had a business coach probably since I've been about 26, so quite a few years now. Um, and I've had different coaches over the years. They've all brought something to the table that's been different. They've all been fantastic. And what they have helped me do is when I've said out loud, this is what I'd like to achieve, whether that's something big or whether it's something small, they have held me accountable to make sure I make it happen. And I, I mean, I think I'm. Quite driven, and I think I do get things done, but I'm not sure I would've achieved some of those goals unless I had somebody that was helping me on that journey. And so I think, and sometimes it's just nice to, to say things out loud rather than going round and round in your head. So I think having a coach that you can trust, um, and if they've got. If they've got a similar background or they've got a network of people that can help you even better. But otherwise, just somebody that is really on your side, um, knows where you are heading. They can, they can just make the journey a lot, um, a lot simpler. Yeah, I think that's a fantastic advice. And often our families are very well-meaning, but they don't always get it. So having somebody else who gets what you are trying to do and is going to be supportive of that, I think is, I think that's really, really good advice. I can challenge you as well, because sometimes, you know, I, I, I have quite a few ideas and at times it would be like, okay, is that practical? How can we make that happen? And other times it's like, well, that's just ridiculous. That would. You know, how, how exactly would, would that, you know, go into reality? So I think it's having somebody that isn't a yes person, it's somebody that can challenge you as well. Um, and yeah, and that can just be, well, it, I think it's a really positive thing and it can help you get to where you want to, um, in the, the timeframe you want to, to do it in as well. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much, Jane. That's been a fantastic episode. Hopefully people have got a lot to take away from it. Thank you so much. That's great. Thank you, Marie.